2 Black Moms & A Mic

Lets Talk Journey of a Young Filmmaker: Andrew Stephens and 27 Deep, A Soccer Documentary (S.3, Ep. 2)

• 2 Black Moms & A Mic • Season 3 • Episode 2

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We love talking to young people finding their way and doing great things!  This episode is no exception!  In this podcast, we talk to Andrew Stephens, a recent college graduate and young filmmaker who filmed and produced his first documentary as a senior in College!  27 Deep is a movie-style documentary that follows the players of the 2022-2023 Haverford College men's soccer team.  In this year, Andrew and his teammates are repeatedly challenged on the field and off.   Nerves and a will to win are tested by this team.  The lessons learned span more than just through the season.   
You won't want to miss this special talk!


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SPEAKER_01:

Hi, I'm Glenda. And I'm Lisa. And we are Two Black Moms and a Mic. Between us, we have six kids, four boys and two girls.

SPEAKER_02:

And we're here to talk to you about everything from diapers to degrees. Welcome to our podcast. We're really excited today because today we're going to showcase another young person doing some really great things. Today we have as our guest Andrew Stevens, and Andrew is a young, aspiring filmmaker. He just came out with his first film documentary called 27 Deep. He graduated from Sidwell Friends School in the D.C. area, and he recently graduated from Haverford College. Andrew, thanks for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02:

Why don't you just tell us a little bit about your new film documentary?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so 27 Deep is a documentary about my college soccer team's 2022-2023 season. It's about family. It's about overcoming adversity. It's about taking accountability for your success and all the highs and lows of a soccer season. It's meant to be exciting, but also meant to tell a real story about what we learned as players on the team and as really just family members as we work through these struggles and experienced a crazy year together.

SPEAKER_01:

What was the spark or the idea that led to the creation of this movie about your college soccer?

SPEAKER_00:

So since that was my senior year, initially, I just wanted to have a way to memorialize the year. I knew that there probably wouldn't be a budget for some type of large production or even just a smaller production just for our team specifically, because Hartford is a D3 school. So there isn't much allocated towards that. But I did think that it was going to be a great year on the field. And I was hoping that we could have some way to just memorialize kind of the journey that we had coming from COVID and just the history of the program and all that to get back to where we wanted to be as a program. And so I just kind of with that idea and I'm just pitch it to my teammates. And it kind of went from there.

SPEAKER_02:

I thought it was interesting how you wove in the idea of family. And you're talking about your college soccer family. Yeah. So I was a soccer mom for many years and Glenda was also a soccer mom. And I can relate to the drama of a soccer season very, very well. And while you sit there and watch the kids going through the highs and lows, I have to say, you know, the parents go through it just as much as the kids do. I mean, we were very, very much, you know, emotionally entangled with our college. Right. Remember, Glenda, because our girls played together soccer in middle school and high

SPEAKER_01:

school. Yeah. My daughter. went to Pomona. And although she didn't go there to play soccer, it's also a D3 school She played pickup soccer while she was there because while she was here, she was playing club soccer until she graduated from high school. And she was at your arrival. She was at Georgetown Day. So I actually missed when she left. I had an emptiness about the soccer season because I had been following her since she was in second grade. My

SPEAKER_00:

parents were very excited when I was able to walk onto the team there at Haverford. Yeah, you've

SPEAKER_02:

got a great story. Your Haverford story.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but they were very excited to be able to watch me play again and just be a Definitely a little different in terms of like the coaching dynamic, because I know

SPEAKER_02:

a lot of youth parents are very involved. Thank you. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, a lot of competing things that were going on behind the scenes in this story. It is a genuine story, but it's heavily abbreviated. There's a lot of things that I definitely felt like shouldn't go in the film that happened during the season or happened during the off season. And ultimately I was trying to kind of boil it all down into something that people who were there would understand and say, I know what you're talking about. People who weren't there would say, okay, like this is still a very interesting story. And I was also trying to write something that would help the players who are still there be motivated and inspired by a season that wasn't very good and also follow through with all the things that we talked about doing as a team in the offseason, changing our habits, being better about things. And there were a lot of things that weren't in our control, but I was trying to insinuate that there are a lot of things that are in your control. And if you're able to keep that in mind and take responsibility, you're going to have a lot better chance of success. I was kind of trying to cut immediately the idea that you can just blame someone else for whatever's happening, even if something legitimately happened that you couldn't do anything about.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because that question to the audience really can speak to the individual who is listening to the words that you're saying. Right. So I thought that that was quite like sort of an insightful way to start the movie.

SPEAKER_01:

It sounds like you wanted to target to make sure everybody had a growth mindset, that they were using strength to move past whatever obstacles they had been enforcing, which actually is pretty good coming from someone pretty young. You're a senior in college, so some people don't get to that point of understanding until much later, and some people never get to that

SPEAKER_00:

point. I appreciate

SPEAKER_02:

that. And even as an adult, I was like thinking, yeah, you know, who are my enemies?

SPEAKER_00:

A lot of things happened during that year that kind of forced me to have that approach, you know, especially with being on a college team. You have a lot of freshmen like you, a lot of younger guys who look up to you. And a lot of times you want to be upset about something, but you have to at least show them that they do have control over it. And, you know, once they grow and mature, then they'll say, OK, like maybe these things we can't control. But as long as we as a team work towards a goal and take responsibility, then we have a chance.

SPEAKER_01:

That's really positive outlook, a growth mindset outlook. What were one of the best moments for you in the film?

SPEAKER_00:

I think the end. It's interesting that you asked that because obviously there are parts that I enjoy, but there are things, some things were tougher to make than others. I think more down part to the film. I lived it. I was there for most of the time that I was creating it. I was like, wow, this is tough. It's tough to watch back. And I was trying to figure out how to cut it up, but I'm proud of how I put those parts together because they were very emotional in a lot of ways. And I know that for myself and my team, it really took us back to what that was like. And you get really intimate. I knew that the end was going to be the end when I saw it in the raw footage when we were done filming. So I guess over a year ago, I was like, this has to be the end. And it was kind of as I go on throughout the film, I got better at editing because I was still learning all these processes. And so that last section where I was putting together two games at the same time and trying to drive home this point, when I guess... You're saying you don't want to give away the film. Well, I'll say this, but this point that, you know, if you want to be the best, if you want to win a championship, basically, that you have to beat the best teams and you have to take advantage of your opportunities because there'll be few and far between. That moment in the season where we really broke through or thought we were breaking through, it was unbelievable. We thought like this was, we're going all the way. Like we came back in this game, this team, one of the best teams in the country at the time. It was just pure will in that game. And so that's a favorite moment of mine for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

And I can see why it would be. It's a very big growth moment, too.

SPEAKER_02:

In the middle of the film, the team captains talking about how are we going to get over this hurdle? How are we going to determine what the problem is and then fix it so that we can do better in the next season? Right. So you have the team captains trying to figure out like what to do. And one of the team captains, I remember saying the hardest thing is to captain a losing team. Yeah. But what was interesting is that they were trying to be transparent. They're trying to take in ideas for improvement and letting everybody have a voice. When you were like filming that, how did that make you feel in terms of their wanting to get buy in essentially by all the team members on how on a plan for moving forward to improve the outcomes of the team?

SPEAKER_00:

So like filming the interviews? Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't literally there for most of what they were talking about, but I'm really close to those two guys, and I give them a lot of credit for what they did because they were put in a really tough situation where they had to, as leaders, basically do things that you're not expected to as a captain in terms of talking to AD and just other external things, and you also have to keep the team inspired and motivated because we came off a really, really tough year. We were 4, 8, and 5, and it's a program that has high expectations, We have a lot of alum who are really invested and really excited about the program, especially like guys who graduated like 2018, 2019, who won like three conference championships while they were there. There's a lot of pressure when those guys were going into their senior year and they didn't have a blueprint. I knew that they were going through a lot and just putting so much energy and time into making sure that the next year would be better. So when they were talking about it in the interviews, I was like, I believe you 100%. Because there are a ton of different competing ideas of what to do, where to go next from all the players. And everyone's an individual at the end of the day. But we need to be a team. So you have to incorporate what people are saying. And even if you give less weight to something at the end of the day, you still have to take it into account because people have friends, people have groups. within the team. And even if we're all tight, it's like people are still going to talk and have ideas. And I just commend them for how they handled it and what they did, because it would have been really easy to give up. Do you think

SPEAKER_02:

that kept people emotionally invested in what the team was doing and want to continue to

SPEAKER_00:

definitely

SPEAKER_02:

push forward?

SPEAKER_00:

I think in general, also give a lot of props to everyone on the team, because looking back, everyone played a unique role in terms of getting the team back to a place where they want to be at. And they had a good season this year. came up a little short of the playoffs, but ultimately much better than the past couple of years after COVID. But really, everyone had to buy in to something that they weren't used to for the first couple of years, because it's one thing to say, I want to be better. I want us to win this year. But the question is, are you actually willing to do what it takes to get you there? Right. Other programs are doing a lot better, putting a lot more into it. We want to be like them, but it's not just magic.

SPEAKER_02:

Those lessons are for ever, not just soccer, but yeah, for a lot of a lot of things that people try

SPEAKER_01:

to. Yeah, they're for a lifetime. Yeah. You're going to run across different people in corporate America that you're going to have to work with. Or even if you maintain holding your own company, you've got to work with other people. No one does that as a solo. So learning how to work with the team and to take voice from everyone in the team and then to simulate it and make sure it works is a lifelong lesson. And I'm impressed.

SPEAKER_00:

I was impressed by them as well. Well,

SPEAKER_01:

Haverford in itself has got an environment that embraces the uniqueness of the individual and tries to bring it together. So if people are there, they're there because they want to be and they want to be able to collaborate amongst other people. So that in itself is a good breeding ground. So what made you think that you, Mr. Haverford, could go out and make a documentary?

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great question. There's a few things. One is, I think, self-belief. And this is something that I kind of try to live by and I try to share with other people. And I think people will kind of believe it more as we get older and more experienced. But I really believe that you can only be as much as you believe in yourself. And other people will only believe in you once they can tell that you have confidence and you believe in yourself. There's a lot of things you can learn, and especially when you're young, it's like take chances, take risks. And I had like a little bit of editing experience. I liked music. And I like stories, I guess. And so I thought, OK, I'll just see if I can get the fundraising for it, do my best to pitch it to my teammates, make it look as appealing as possible. And then someone will film it and we'll just see what happens. I definitely think that looking back now, if I knew what it would take to make it, I would have never started it.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, really? It was harder than you thought it was going to be?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah, way harder. Yeah. And I was actually thinking about this while I was driving over. I was like, it's probably good when you're trying to do new things or really difficult things to have a healthy level of ignorance in terms of what you're

SPEAKER_03:

trying.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess I'll put it like this. If I knew how the season would have gone, I definitely wouldn't have done it because my whole thought process was this is going to be a great year. It's going to be something we want to watch. forever. And like I put it together and I also enjoy like entrepreneurship and just creating stuff, solving problems. And so I was also hoping that it would be a project that could help me get going in that area as well, because Haverford isn't like a business school or anything like that. So I was really trying to create my own way. That's why I started it. And I just believe that I could do it. I think also walking onto the team helped me with that because that was something that I had done not that long ago at the time, still not that long ago, but that had low odds and not much precedent. I made it. So I kind of started to build a belief in myself that just because it's low odds or whatever doesn't mean that you can't accomplish it. It's just those are the odds right now. But as you take your steps, as you get closer and closer, the odds increase. So I think about it. Like if you ever following a sporting event on like ESPN or something, they have like a game cast That shows you like win probability. And so like, let's say like it's a basketball game and the team's down 20. It'll say like the other team has like an 85% chance of winning. But people come back from down 20, 30 all the time. And it's just, it's getting closer and closer. The percentage drops and drops and drops and then it's 50, 50. But if you just quit at down 20, then you lose. That's kind of my mindset with that.

SPEAKER_02:

See, the thing is when I watched it, I was inspired by it. Like win or lose, it didn't matter. It was taking on the challenge and the effort of trying to turn it around. What I've learned in life is that the process of getting there matters just as much as the end result, the outcome. You can have a great outcome, but if the process is just so difficult and so toxic, then the outcome is just like, okay, fine, that's over with. Thank goodness. Let's just get out of here. I'm going to take my toys and go home. But if the process is a good one, a good and solid, and you build relationships and you're learning and you're contributing and you feel seen and heard, and maybe you come up short by one point, or maybe like I get most of the grant that I want, but not quite as much. You know, I still feel like I won because I learned and it was like Glenda said, like a growth opportunity. And at some point, you know, you are going to win. You're going to get everything that you want. It just might take some time. So that's what I walked away from watching your movie. It wasn't like, hope they got to win everything. No, it was more like the process of getting through a season. And it's interesting, too, because, you know, I just liked seeing how the young men, the dynamics between the young men and the respect towards each other and just sort of this joint effort of wanting the process to be a and healthy one for everyone and still get the result that you all desire. Yeah. So in that way, I do think it's a success. But I am also a mom.

SPEAKER_01:

And you

SPEAKER_02:

watched Andrew grow up. But having been a soccer mom, though, the bad process can totally mess people up. No,

SPEAKER_01:

it's totally, totally, totally, totally true. As I'm sitting here and I'm listening to you, Andrew, I'm recalling something I heard I have a long commute on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I've decided to listen to books on tapes. And the most recent one I'm listening to is called Hidden Potential. In there, he talks about how we shouldn't shy away from failure because that's where we learn. When things are hard, that's when we learn the most. If it's easy, then cognitively it's not stimulating your brain or your emotions aren't really into it. And although it gets frustrating, sometimes you just want to cry or you just want to hit a wall or something. At the end, the potential... for you to even move forward and make another one is there because you've learned so many valuable lessons along the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I definitely had moments where I just wanted to stop or just hit my head against the wall. It was bad because there were so many things I had to learn on my own throughout the process, whether it was writing a story, writing narration, getting the correct equipment, learning the editing software. I remember the first time I opened up the software, it was the beginning of my senior year because I was just like, OK, my plan was that every weekend I would edit it a little bit as the season was going along. So it would be more manageable that year. Got a concussion. It didn't go as planned at all. And I did it all in June, July. But I opened up the software. I was like, I had no idea why any of this stuff is necessary. Like, why do I have like three windows here? All these tabs down the right side telling me these effects. Like I was lost. And so learning that it was very tough. Then, of course, the unexpected issues that just pop up or arise. Yeah. Like the season going terribly. What am I going to ask in these interviews? Should I even have interviews? And things turn around, unfortunately, in the offseason. But basically, I was like, we won four games. How am I going to make a film that's interesting or worth watching even for the guys on the team? And I remember talking to a couple of them and I was saying, this is probably done in August. And they were like excited for it. But also, I wish it came out really before the season started so we could move on to the next thing and not just talk about the sad past, creating themes, all this stuff. I now know how to do it for the next time from start to finish, which is great. And if I had stopped or not taken on, I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_02:

And I just have to say, I mean, the writing is very good. I mean, you should really pat yourself on the back because it is very, very good. At private school education.

SPEAKER_03:

Political science. Thanks to mom and dad, right? No,

SPEAKER_02:

but you're writing. And there's a lot to be said for that. The reason I'm saying it's very good is because it really captures... The mood, it captures the excitement, it captures the disappointment, and it brings the audience to the emotional state that's taking place at that time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

to do this. And so I stress that because nowadays people don't really want to write or kids are having a hard time writing or getting their messages across or even being taught how to really write. So, I mean, that in itself is an achievement. Yeah, you're tired, but you know, entrepreneurship is tiring.

SPEAKER_02:

But for you, the end result is exceptional. I

SPEAKER_00:

do want to Give my parents credit for schooling. That's definitely important. I've taken kind of my dad's demeanor, trying to be as just a logical, just problem solving focus as possible. And then my mom's diction and rhetoric. I think the way that she talks, it's a skill. She can be very diplomatic, also get her point across. And I think word choice is really, really important. Yeah. And being able to talk to people of different age groups and understand how people are going to react and respond to what you're saying, that you can get the message across you want to say, because sometimes you can say something that's correct or whatever but if no one wants to hear it right listening then it doesn't matter Sometimes it's not the right time for someone to hear a message in the way that you want to say it. So you have to put it in a different way. And I think that helped me write the story because the way that I wrote is the way that I would talk if I was having like a serious conversation with someone who's asking me for advice or something like that. That's how I would talk to them. You know, it's going to be OK. And, you know, help them along either emotionally or thought process with the problem solving. But it is delicate. It's something that I value as an ability. Give them credit for giving me that. Give them the props.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. That's right. Well, I do have to say, we've talked about the writer. The music is really, really great. We want to maybe play a quick clip from the film so that people can get a sense of how great the music is.

SPEAKER_00:

If there's anything we know about sports, it's that if there's a chance... There's a chance in this group. We'll do whatever it takes to see tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01:

How did you decide on the music?

SPEAKER_00:

I think the music is a critical part of the film. To me, the music is probably my favorite part of the creative process. I think it's another way to tell the story. It's not just a supplement. It doesn't just exist in the background. As I went through the chapter writing process, it happened at different stages, but I would go through, I'd finish editing a cut, like a draft, like a seven-minute clip, and then I'd just take my phone, walk around the house, listen to songs on Spotify, just go through, because in my head I can see where something goes, but I was like, does this go with the story? Because initially the problem I ran into was that I was letting the songs dictate what the story was because I was spending too much time or I was doing the music first in my head. So I was like, oh, this would look good. This would be great here. But then I heard it with a different song. I was like, this would also be great. And so I had to stop and actually take a step back from that and make sure that I knew what I was saying first. And then I would go through and pick out the songs. I used that initially as an outline, basically. And then went and hired music producers. I would give them like five songs and say, like, make a sound that's in the middle of this. Like, this is what I'm going for. You got it. And then they go back and forth and they give me the final product. And it turned out really, really well. Yeah, it did. I got that.

SPEAKER_01:

So the skills there is teamwork, management, problem solving skills. Dude, you're on your way. You are on your way. Yeah, I know. Well, that's all we can ask for you. You know, that's all we can ask.

SPEAKER_02:

So what do you want the audience to take away from watching your documentary?

SPEAKER_00:

There's a couple of things besides the family aspect, the accountability, the teamwork, and then the exciting parts of the film, just like soccer being fun. I think the fact that it really isn't, as you said, about the winning and losing. It's really about the process of what it takes to win and understanding what you gained from even the losses. And even if it's still enjoying the wins. There are a lot of competing, well not competing, but themes that I think are weaved throughout. And I try to sandwich it all with the opening monologue and closing monologue. Pia's talking about the hero of your story, the villain of your story. Because I felt like it was inconclusive without those parts. Because, you know, it is great to talk about, like I said, the family, taking accountability for your success, overcoming adversity, all these great themes. But since the story is not chronological and not about the season itself, the question is, what is it about? I think it really is about believing that you can have control over your own destiny, regardless of what you want it to be. In the beginning, it's like, Maybe the villain of the story is me. And then at the end, it should be, okay, if I'm the villain, I can also be the hero. It's kind of a battle with yourself. And I mean, sports are like that a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Life is like that, my

SPEAKER_02:

friend. Is there anything you would do differently if you were to do it again?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, definitely. Since I learned a lot of lessons along the way in terms of producing a film. I realized that there are probably certain things that I should have done up front in terms of like participation waivers or like contracts, things like that, so that it would just run smoother on the back end. Creatively, I don't know if I would do anything different. I think that if I had a happier story, then I could do different things. I would probably use different techniques. But given what I was working with and what was happening and all the competing interests, I would say, that I had to deal with because it was for the players. It was for a small group of guys that had a lot invested in the story. It was also for the parents and then the alum and then just people in general were interested in the story. And so I was trying to speak to everyone at the same time. So I could have gone deeper into one thing or talked about something more, but this was probably the best that I felt like I could do. And I was happy with it in the end. There's times where you're like, this isn't good. This isn't what I want. You have to just stop and sit back and watch it. Okay, let's stop it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I guess it's like a professional concert pianist who's like performing and they're like, darn, I miss that note. They're saying to themselves. Meanwhile, the audience is like, that was beautiful. I would

SPEAKER_01:

never notice. Because we didn't know that you missed that. We're just there to enjoy what we're listening to or the story that you're trying to tell. I just think it's incredible that you took something that you love to do and you made a movie from it about your lessons going through. I'd be a proud mama.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. So what's next for Abera Presents?

SPEAKER_00:

Hopefully another film soon. They're trying to figure out kind of what the next steps are for the company, I guess, versus myself, because there's definitely two different things. When I actually created the company, I kind of just did it because I felt like I should have a name on the film. I was like, this is a production, so there should be a production company behind it. versus just myself and then whatever else goes on there. And then I felt like it would be easier for me to kind of separate parts of separating business from like, I guess, the rest of my life. Yeah. Just trying to decide what makes the most sense going forward for myself and then hoping to do more films like this with an actual budget and get to Netflix and beyond as soon as possible. I guess that's the goal.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I really like the name. How did you come up with that name?

SPEAKER_00:

The way I came up with it was I just shortened the word aberration.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, huh.

SPEAKER_00:

And so that's how I went with Abera because, you know, I felt like, and I guess it's a continuation of answering your question of what I want people to take away from the film. Well, I believe in the guys that have heard, but they can get their championship soon. But I think it's kind of about being an aberration in the making. And I know the word aberration is normally kind of used in a negative connotation, but it can go either way. And in this way, I'm using it positively because the Google definition is like unwelcome anomaly or something like

SPEAKER_02:

that. Well, I call it a pivot from the norm. That's what I'd like to get.

SPEAKER_00:

But essentially, I'm just trying to create aberration. I just try to think as big as possible, have a vision. stick to it and believe that just because I haven't done something yet or I don't have a clear path that it doesn't mean it's not attainable. I've learned enough times by now that it is attainable. And eventually I'll start to be able to see it more clearly as long as I keep pushing in the right direction. That's what I think I would like to highlight those stories where people have something that's brewing and not everyone knows about it yet. Or maybe they even don't really know what they have, but I can see it.

SPEAKER_01:

That's very cool. Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah, steal that name. Oh, I'm sorry. It's probably already trademarked. Did you trademark

SPEAKER_00:

it? It's not

SPEAKER_01:

trademarked yet.

SPEAKER_02:

That's one of your improvement topics. Put the legal stuff first. Where can people find your film?

SPEAKER_00:

It's on YouTube right now. If you just search 27 Deep, it should come up. It's on my YouTube channel. Avera Presents. A-B-E-R-R-A Presents. And yeah, I mean, like it, subscribe to the channel, share.

SPEAKER_01:

We're going to put a link to it when we put out this podcast. That's right. And send it around to people, have them look at it. And even little kids, this would be a good message to see different things. You know, just even if it's not the whole thing, just bits and pieces of it. And I mean, I can see schools benefiting from showing your film.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and see, another thing about the film, too, is that there's a, you know, diversity in the player makeup. Right, yeah. Which is, you know, so you see these sort of diverse boys going through this painful period

SPEAKER_00:

together. That's kind of also one of the other stories, just how the guys represent themselves. You know, I don't talk about that, even though that is something that I thought about actually writing into the narration. But I think that the way that they handle themselves in the interviews and just throughout the season was great. Because, you know, I'm

SPEAKER_02:

always waiting for somebody to say something multicultural team yeah there was um yeah boys of color on the team and you know i'm always waiting for somebody to say something but i didn't hear it that

SPEAKER_00:

was a blessing i did a lot of editing but people no one really no one cursed at all on the field that was different

SPEAKER_02:

the boys were respectful of each other

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah that's what i look for yeah it was good it was very good

SPEAKER_01:

You went to a liberal arts school and you made a documentary. You're less than 25 years old. That's right. Here's a young black male who's out there doing stuff. Doing good things, yeah. Making the world better. Yeah, making the world better. And we need that. We do need that. And we're here to encourage you as much and however we possibly can. Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

This has been a great talk. And we want to thank you for joining us today,

SPEAKER_00:

Andrew. Thanks for having me.

UNKNOWN:

It's great.

SPEAKER_02:

Be sure to check us out on our website, www.2blackmomsandamite.com, where we hope that you'll subscribe. You can also hear this and our other podcasts on Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Audible, and Podchaser. If you like what you hear, we hope you'll give a great review. Hey,

SPEAKER_01:

thanks for joining us today. This is Glenda. And this is Lisa. Two black moms and a mic, and we're signing off.