Insights of a Power Mom - "The Power of Presence" with Joy Moore (S.4, Ep. 4)

Joy Moore is a highly successful media professional, distinguished writer, and producer.  She managed the media impact portfolio for the Annie E. Casey Foundation, a private philanthropy, for many years, was a writer and field producer for Essence in New York City, an Adjunct Professor at Howard University, and currently leads her own media consulting firm.  Joy has won a Peabody Award for her exceptional work in radio.  And that's just her professional life.  Her most important role is that of mom, grandma and mother-in-love to a beautiful family! 

Join us in our talk with Joy as she shares the highs, lows and everything in between in her parenting journey which is captured in her insightful book, "The Power of Presence:  Be a Voice in Your Child's Ear When You're Not With Them."  In her book, Joy shares her pillars for parenting that could help you keep it all together in the midst of navigating your kids and family!  You don't want to miss our great conversation with Joy!  

Check us out at www.2blackmomsandamic.com.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hi, I'm Glenda. And I'm Lisa. And we are Two Black Moms and a Mic. Between us, we have six kids, four boys and two girls. And we're here to talk to you about everything from diapers to degrees. Welcome to our podcast. We're so happy to have as our guest today Ms. Joy Moore. Joy is a distinguished writer, producer, and media professional. She's president and CEO of JWS Media Consulting, and prior to founding her own media company, she managed the media impact portfolio for the Annie E. Casey Foundation, a private philanthropy dedicated to helping build better futures for disadvantaged children and families in the United States. Prior to that, she was a writer and a field producer for television in New York City, where she worked for Essence. And in Washington, D.C., for her work, she earned a Peabody Award for her documentary work in radio. She also served as an adjunct professor at Howard University. She earned her bachelor's and master's degree from American University. And that's her professional life. But her most important role is that of mom, grandma, and mother-in-love to a beautiful family. She has three children. That includes our own Maryland Governor, Wes Moore, and she has grandchildren. So she has a very, very full life. And she's here today to share insights from her wonderful book called The Power of Presence. Be a voice in your child's ear, even when you're not with them. So thank you so much, Joy. We're so happy to have you today. Oh, I am so excited to join you both today. Thank you so much. So this is a really powerful title with a powerful underlying theme. Can you tell us about your book? Well, originally it was designed to be a love letter. basically to single moms. It was during a time when everyone was sort of bad mouthing, you know, single moms and this and that, your kids are going to be this, they're going to grow up to be that and whatever. And I knew from experience that that was wrong. And I knew from all the many, many thousands of women that I knew that that was wrong. So I wanted to show the world with this book that single moms have a power that transcends all of the negativity that was surrounding them. I like that. I don't know. I think that people always look for a scapegoat, you know, a reason for this. And so single moms are because it is tough. It is hard. Yeah. When you're by yourself, especially if you don't have sort of the community around you. Yeah. It can be difficult. We probably are stronger. I think Wes did the forward and he said single moms are the backbone of our families. And so we have to really give them the respect that they're due. I guess single moms is lionesses throughout, which is just so pertinent and relevant. It's weird and true. Well, it's so funny. It took maybe six years of researching, you know, finding the moms, finding the various quotes that I put throughout the book. And I always wanted to find something that could convey what a single mom is. And I finally came up with the lioness. Yeah. Because they support each other. The lion sort of sits around, does whatever he does. No offense, lion. But these women who go out, they're the hunters. And they will leave like one lioness there to watch the kids, the cubs. And the rest of them will go out and hunt. bring the food back to the pride and they eat. So I said, okay, that's what single moms do. They support each other. And so that's why I chose the lioness. Oh, I didn't even know that about the lioness. She's going out to get the food. Oh, they're fierce. I was probably at the grocery store. Yeah, no, lions are very fierce and protective. Yeah, they're cubs of each other. That's a wonderful analogy. I like that a lot. And I know a lot of single moms, and I take my hat off to them, and I take my hat off to the endurance that they go through throughout life without getting appreciated for it, mostly being criticized for it. But you know what's kind of interesting? Black moms who are single get more criticism than any other single mom. Absolutely. It's interesting. At my age, I'm looking and I'm thinking, well, wait a minute. She's got a couple of kids by different daddies. How come no one's making comments about that? Well, you know, a lot of it started sort of, you know, back when was it Reagan with the welfare queens. Yeah. So, you know, it's sort of ingrained in the culture that somehow Black women are the ones who are getting over as opposed to the fact that other cultures get more welfare and other things proportionately. More than we do. Yes. Yeah. That's not the narrative. No, it's not the narrative. Yeah. So again, I thank you for writing this love letter to single moms. Thank you. I would have known about it many, many years ago before our kids wrote it. So what does it mean to be the voice in your child's ear? You know, all the things that we hear, like I quote my mom all the time. She passed a few years ago. She was 95. I will hear like one thing she loved saying was, good, better, best. Never let it rest until your good gets better and your better gets best. She was West Indian, right? So she always had these things. And so I think that's the kind of thing where you, what can you leave to your kids that will help them be stronger, you know, be more resilient. When you're not with them, being present is physically, but also emotionally and mentally. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's interesting because my mom's 88. And I talk to her like every day. And then she used to talk to her mother every day. And I've got a lot of women in my side of the family. And what I find is that even now... I'm asking myself, okay, I'm in this situation. Like, what would my mom tell, I mean, and I talked to her, but you know, like, what would she say? Or what would, or what would Helen, who's my grandmother, like, what would she think? So it's the same kind of thing. Like, you know, I'm thinking about what would they think or what would they tell me? Or maybe it's, I don't want to tell them whatever it is decision I have to take, but like, what would they suggest or what would they tell me to do? So it carries over forever. Absolutely. The values, you know. Yeah. Will carry over. That's why it's so important, I think, because they're such sponges, kids. Yeah. Well, I only have the two grandkids, you know, from Wes and Dawn. And I watch them and I see things that they do that I know that, well, Wes in particular would have picked up. Yeah. You know, along the way. Yeah. And it's interesting. It makes me think about my grandmother because before cell phones, I'd call my grandmother once a week. you know, on Sundays, whether from college or from home or whatever. But if I missed a week, she would say to me, oh, I thought you forgot about me. And I was like, wait, I'm sorry. So she insisted on that regular communication from me, but she wasn't going to call me. It was like, I must call her every Sunday or else she's going to throw the guilt thing on me. I know they were good at doing that.

UNKNOWN: 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 8:04

They're good at doing that. I think it's great when you hear your own kids talk My kids range from 26 to 34 now. But it's good when they acknowledge something that you instilled in them or you notice that they're doing something that you know they got from you. Right. Yeah. And you don't have to say anything. You just smile. Just smile. Because then you're like, okay, they were listening. They did understand. Yeah. They may have been rebelling at the time. They were in middle school. I won't call out any particular one, but it is wonderful. You're right. It's wonderful to be with them physically, mentally, and emotionally. Well, you know, every time, especially with young families, you know, let's say, when they're at that wits end, you know, with stuff, with, you know, their teenagers or whatever. So just wait it out. I know it's frustrating. But, you know, when they get to be 20, 25, they'll that you aren't so dumb after all. Right, exactly. But during that process, when they're in those younger years. Oh my God, it was a total nightmare. I know. And the fight with social media, that was my worst situation. And the pressure to want to go out and hang out and be with friends. And I'm like, I just lost my mind during those years. I know, but you know what? We talk about that, but just spending time recently with kids from pre-K to 12th grade, In today's world, these kids are attached to those phones unlike I've ever noticed before. And see, that's what makes it harder to be a presence to them, especially at that age, when that's more important to them, you know, what they're hearing on social media than it might be than anything that we might be saying. But maybe they are hearing. I mean, I'm not sure. Well, you know, I think that a lot of times, you know, it's sort of the whole modeling thing. I find myself doing that sometimes, right? I have the phone in my hand. And we're supposed to be having dinner or having conversation. And so putting down the phone, especially like with girlfriends or that kind of thing, putting down the phone sort of shows that lesson that we don't have to be attached to it. Now it's tougher being a young person right now. Yeah, I think so too. Like before, if you didn't have a whole lot of money, people weren't telling you, you know, 24-7 that you're poor. Yeah, that's for sure. But now it's like you see it on TV, you know, this and that you wanted and all of a sudden, wow, I'm really disadvantaged. Now it's harder. That's true. And so the power of presence is even more important, I think, now for parents to read Yeah, yeah. You've got to kind of change that a little bit because I'm worried about your attention span. I'm worried about you not understanding the conversation that's going on on the table. Even if it's above your head, you're still going to pick up something. Or you not being, as a parent, being engaged with your child to let them know that they're important. You're out to dinner, but they're important. They're important enough for you to sit there with and talk about whatever they want to talk about, right? And even with adult kids, though, like... we'd go out to dinner and Rob will be like, oh, I can't put her phone away. I'm like, oh my God. But even I find myself, I'm like, oh my God, no, I can't just put it away. But yeah, you have to make a conscious effort to engage. You may have a hard time putting the phone down. Glenda knows because not only do I have my phone, but I also keep my stupid iPad with me in my purse. We're all getting used to this technology, even though it's been around for a long time. But again, when I see a four-year-old with a cell phone, that bothers me a bit. It's not my kids, not my grandkid, but it bothers me. Especially, I'm concerned because you can't recognize the letters that we're trying to teach you in preschool. But you know how to go on the phone and do just about anything. Well, it's sort of almost a replacement babysitter. You don't want to engage with a thing, with a machine, especially with AI right now. Yeah, AI is kind of scary. It's becoming more and more important to engage. Yes. To be present. Yeah, the power of presence. So that brings us to your seven pillars, mind, heart, faith, courage, resources, connectedness, and value. So do you consider them parenting principles? Well, for me, I mean, in the whole sort of process of writing the book, I had to just really sit down. What was it that helped me? And these are the ones that sort of came to mind and that I could sort of make a sense of and find folks to come into those categories. They may be for other people, but for me, these were the things that worked. I wanted to actually start with courage because there's so much going on that families are experiencing now. And you quoted Maya Angelou that courage is the most important of all the virtues because without courage, you can't practice any other virtue consistently. What is courage to you and why is that important as part of parenting journey? Well, I think particularly now with all the challenges and the chaos that's going on in the world, it's so easy to sort of want to just put the covers over your head and stay there. But courage is being able to say, okay, I have got to put one foot in front of the other and keep going and figure it out. How am I going to make ends meet? How am I going to respond to perhaps a challenging child? And that's courage. It takes all the other things, all the other, the mind, the heart, resources, connectedness, values. It sort of envelops all of those things. Yeah. Because you can't do those other things if you're not courageous enough to try. When my husband passed, it was the kids made me have to put one foot in front of the other and not decide that, you know, I was going to lose myself in my grief. Yeah. You're a lioness protecting your cubs. That's right. Because we will do anything for our cubs. And to have the courage, though, just to move forward. you know, to sort of start afresh or start anew. I mean, it does take a lot of courage. Yeah. Well, you know, one of the moms that I interviewed, Una, her husband was a fireman and he died on 9-11. Yeah, I remember reading that. Well, this is sort of why all of these seven pillars, you know, intersect, because it was her faith that finally gave her the courage to move forward. But also it was the community around her because for a while she sort of lost her faith. Because she wasn't, you know, how in the world could this happen? She had twins and, you know, newborns and another daughter. So it's the kids, having the community, having that support. Because parenting is, you cannot do it alone. You need somebody. You need something. And the courage piece is key in parenting. And resilience. You have to have it. It's a lot to take on. It's a lot to be responsible for. And nobody gives you a class on parenting. The hardest job in the world. There is no class. There's no class. No. It's a lot of trial by error. We made the decision to let our daughter go to boarding school. And for me, in the face of, I don't want to say lack of support, but skepticism, you know, by members of my family. But I knew that that was best for her. But I was scared to death, you know, dropping my kid off, hoping that everything would be okay. I mean, I put her in a great situation, but you never know because I'm used to like, she's upstairs, I'm in the kitchen, you know, like, you know where all of your parts are, right? And so even though I knew, you know, where my part was supposed to be, I could only pray that she's actually there. Glenda remembers. I mean, that was very, very hard for me. And even another friend of mine, she goes, why are you doing that? Black people don't do that. There's a lot of judgment. And I was like, you're right. Black people don't do that. What am I doing? But in the end, she's better for it. I don't know if I'm necessarily better for it because I was very stressed out. But once you saw her thriving. Yeah. After we got past a couple, you know, one or two hurdles. I mean, in the end, it was the best thing that we could have done for her. Well, that's what we did with Wes. Wes was in boarding school. Military school. And he probably hated me for a while. But it was the best thing for him. And like you. It was, well, how could I do this? I mean, we didn't allow guns in the house. You know, my husband, my late husband and I, we just didn't give him that stuff. And the thought of military school was so frightening. You know, what is he going to come out as? So what it did was it really honed his leadership. And so it was the best thing for him then. But you're right. It takes courage. It takes courage. And it takes to have someone in your corner who understands why you're doing this to protect your child. Yeah. And is the best thing for your child. You live with your child. You know your child. Yeah. Unlike anyone else. And yeah, Black people don't normally send their kids to boarding school.

UNKNOWN: 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 18:03

But you know what? A lot of it is we didn't know about. Right. So she grew a lot from it. And you can be just as present, even if in boardings. I was up at Valley Forge just about every week. So was Lisa. I knew she was going to say that. She was there a lot. Really? See, I mean, you know, people knew my name already. She'd be calling me from the car on my way. I'm like, oh, my God. See, you can always be present. I'm going up there right now. I'm like, just let me know when you arrive so I know you're safe. Your values and your courage to protect your child. That's right. Well, let's look at another mother, Susan Taylor, that I interviewed. She's part of this multi, you know, million dollar enterprise and she's editor in chief and doing all these things. And she finally realized that when she came home, she was not leaving the office. And she said once she started realizing that and coming home and asking her daughter, well, how was your day? And just spending time. And, you know, until she went to bed, her academics changed. She became valedictorian. And she was having problems before. That child knowing that they have your full attention in that moment. We're adults. We have to figure it out. You know, if you have a messy boss or situation at work or whatever. That's not the kid's problem. Yeah. So we shouldn't bring that home in that sense. Yeah. I think I struggled with that because I felt underappreciated at work. And then you walk in the door and you're like, I don't appreciate it. I'm like, wait, does anybody like it? Let me call Glenda. She'll make me feel better about myself. No, that is so right. Yeah. I know. I was dying for somebody to give me an award of some kind from somebody. I know, right? I remember reading this book, The Price of Motherhood, and I'm like, okay, I don't like it. But it is what it is. And you brought them into this world. Yeah. As my kids remind me every now and then. Yeah. Well, my fault. Well, one thing I'd like to... Technically. I just sort of feel repaid. I shouldn't say repaid. That's not the right way to say it. But when I broke my ankle about, what, three years ago? Oh, yeah. It only came. Yes. And my daughter came and took care of me. Rob was here. But, you know, she came and took care of me for like four days. And then she left.

UNKNOWN: 21:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 21:32

She left on like a Friday. And then Saturday morning, the doorbell is ringing. And I'm like, Rob, go get the door. I don't know who it is. She came back. The next day, she's living in New York, came back the next day, flew back because she was concerned that her not being there, I wouldn't have sufficient care. In other words, she was nervous that Rob wasn't going to be there. That's my everything. And so I was like, you know what? This is why, I shouldn't say this is why you have kids, but that made me feel really good. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's because of the care you gave her. That's sweet. I thought you were driving her crazy, but she also knew who was in her corner. When you needed someone in her corner, you were always there in her corner, and she knew that. I was not surprised that she came and hung out with you. I know. I called Glenn. I was like, God, guess what? I can't believe Emma came back. And I guess, you know, as you're going through the process of parenting, you don't expect the kids to do that, and you can't expect it. But it sure is nice when it comes. It is nice when it comes. They're bossing you around. I got COVID. I was losing my mind. I'm like, how did I get this? I didn't want this. What happened? I stayed five years without this. But my daughter was there taking care of me. She was. And ordering me around and telling me to sleep. I'm like, she says sounds familiar, doesn't it? No comment. Power of presence. Right. Well, that brings us actually to the mind pillar. And the principle there seems to be, don't be afraid to share your children and to promote them having mentors in their lives. And why is that important? Well, we can't be everything to our kids. As much as I try, I could never be a father to my son or to my daughters. My brother, for example, my younger brother, I know that the relationship that he had with Wes, for example, was one that I could trust and he would tell him anything. In fact, he was his best man when he got married, but he would always come and tell me. So I knew what was still going on. But, you know, having mentors like in his case, again, Mayor Schmoke, he's the one who Gates said took him when he interned with him one summer and he said, look at this picture, you know, and he showed him his, the picture of him in his Rhodes class. And he said, have you ever thought about the Rhodes scholarship? Yeah. That was the scene. My daughter, she majored in sociology. She interned and she realized she got too emotionally involved to be in that, but she loved to shop and she could be, she's got her own business now. She's a personal shopper and event planner. It's having, you know, those people who you trust to be around your kids and those people whose traits you don't want in your child. I've done that. I've kept people away. Yeah. No comments. You want your child to reflect the values that you have. And so you have to bring people in with those values. Yeah. Yeah, because it's important for people to see the goodness or the greatness in your child other than you. And to bring that out and to expose them to what could be. Because I think we can't be all things, I guess, to our children. Right. Even though we try. It's exhausting. Yeah. And it's not good self-care for us either, although sometimes we forget about our own self-care. Well, I got my nails done yesterday. I'm getting back to it. I used to do what I used to call the triangle day. I don't know if you saw it in the book, but when things are really, you know, hairy and stuff, I would say, okay, I shut down and I would take a day. And I know all moms can't do this, but you can do variations of the theme. I would go home. I would go from my bed to the bathroom to the kitchen all day long. That's all I would do. I would, if I wanted to read, if I wanted to do whatever, I would watch TV, whatever I wanted to do. And the kids knew that if they needed me, they would call twice. I knew it was them. Yeah. Okay. And this is before, you know, before cell phones and, you know, caller IDs and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, you have to take care of yourself. And if it means going to get your nails done, get your nails done. That's true. I remember putting myself in time out when my kids were, they weren't too little, but maybe they were in law school or preschool or whatever. And it was summer and they were home and it was just a lot going on. And then I looked and I said, Mommy's going in a timeout. Yes. What did you do? I didn't do anything. But before I do do something, I'm going to go in timeout. That's right. That is cute. I'm going to go dig in some dirt or something. So you'll know, you'll see me. But I'm in timeout for like 30 minutes. And unless it's an emergency, you can't bother me. They're like, okay. That's a good one. Yeah, I literally would put myself in time out. Because it was something they could understand. Right, right. You know? I liked it trying all day, too. Right. The kids are like, oh, poor mom. She's in time out. Yeah. But it makes it into, oh. I should take up that towel. I mean, what? I'm going to be in time out for a little bit. I mean, because there were four of them. Yeah. Four total different personalities. Yeah. Sometimes I needed to be in time. That's right. It's either that or putting them out. And again, I brought them into the world, as my children tell me every now and then. So another pillar is the heart, having heart. And I think you wrote, having heart is to showcase compassion, empathy, humility, forgiveness, putting all that is human in someone or something. I guess that's putting your heart into someone else. What meaning does that carry for you? Well, I think once you put your heart into your kids, they then learn how to put their heart into other people. Empathy, I think, is one of the most important things. that anyone can have, not just, you know, your children, but in terms of, you know, a spouse or a coworker. If people can't see themselves in what you're going through, we could have all kinds of chaos. Things will be done that completely are devoid of compassion because there is no empathy about what other people are going through. That is so true. It's one of the things that they stress in the School of Social Work. is to understand when you're with a client, whether that client is an adult or a child, to be empathetic to what their situation is, what's going on with them. And I think this world right now, well, this country is really missing that value. There's a lot of empathy missing. Not to be confused with sympathy, okay? Right. Not to be confused. There's two very, very different things. Very, very different things. And there was a part in your book, too, where I think You had a lot of, you were working at Essence and you were doing other extra work and you were just like working constantly, which I totally relate to, doing a lot. Things are chaotic at home. I remember Robbie, he would, you know, I'd be working late at, Robbie calling up, you need to get home. You got to help these kids. Got to do homework. So then I would get home. I'd be like, Robbie, I know you started your homework, right? It's like 730. He goes, no, no, no. I was waiting for you to get home before I started. That was like his theme all the time. Oh no, I was waiting for you to get home and then we can start. And I guess you experienced the same thing where you cutbacks. Yeah, I had to. Create your boundaries. Now you were doing a lot there. But understandably, because your world had changed and you had a mission that you were on to make sure that Nikki and you were going to be okay. And that takes money. And at that point, I had three kids in some kind of private school. And had it not been for my parents, when it came for Weston and Valley Forge, they took a second mortgage to help me that first year, you know, until I could sort of figure it all out. Finished paying what I was owed for his current school. But the investment paid off. I know we cry all the time about all the money we spent from private school tuition. Yeah. I have no regrets in terms of that. I just wish all kids could have the kind of education that private schools have. Amen to that. If the other Wes had had half the opportunities that my Wes had, he's a smart guy. Yeah, he was very bright. Yeah. Yeah, he was a very bright guy. I mean, as opposed to now spending the rest of his life in prison and being cared for and not contributing, that's what equity is all about. Bringing opportunities for everyone so that someone down, you know, in the middle of Baltimore is going to cure cancer. But we won't know that because he's never had the opportunity to do it. Well, even the other Westmore's mom. Remember, he was in college. If I remember right, she lost the money. Well, she was the first in her family to graduate from high school. Right. Then she went to junior college or community college. She was so smart. She got into Johns Hopkins. Yes, right. She was at Hopkins. But again, this is where public policy comes in and which is what's happening, you know, could happen if the Pell Grants were cut. So she couldn't afford to go to Hopkins. So she had to have a job that took her out of the house and her boys were trying to help supplement and they supplemented in the wrong way. And they that's what happened. He was a really bright kid. Really? And his mom was trying to do the right thing. She was trying to up her game. And then money or lack of resources kind of stopped it. Not having other resources to help her figure out how to get it a different way. Because there's no one there doing educational consulting for people in the inner city. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because I've heard of, you know, from other counselors, we could have figured out a way. But she didn't have the wherewithal, the opportunity herself to find another way. To find another way. So, yeah, mind, heart, faith. She loved her boys. That's right. She was really trying to make them do the right thing. But making money the fast way, just sometimes. I mean, I had a nephew tell me that one. Very smart, very smart. And I said, well, why don't you just focus on school and not be involved in whatever you're involved in, in Wisconsin? And he said, Aunt Glenda, I see that, you know, you came from the inner city, you went to school, you're moving ahead here. He said, but you know, it's a faster way to get that kind of money. You get 11 years in jail. So environment and behavior matters. And that's actually one thing too, in terms of parenting, it's good to have your child as sort of a partner in the discussions. You know, we have to do this because, you know, we need to do this or the money or whatever, but never putting the responsibility on them to do it. And I think that happens a lot. If they can, you know, learn how to be a proper partner in that whole situation. I think we would have few incidents of kids going, being the lone ranger and I'm going to support the family and that kind of thing. That's sad. I know, you're like a teenager. I'm going to be the man of the house. Exactly. But you went behind the ears. Your frontal lobe hasn't even developed. I know, that's sad. You make some 12, 13-year-old. Call me when you're 26, when it's not developed. Well, that's again what, you know, some people will say that. You know, to the kid, you got to be the man of the house now. No, no, no, no. That person does not need to be in your ear. Right. That's one of those people you don't need to have around. That's right. But culturally, that's something that kids hear all the time. That's right. And then they take a path that they've seen other people take, but they don't pay attention to what happens on the other end of that path. Right. Because they're in the moment. So the next pillar that we want to touch on is the faith pillar. And you said that the presence of faith is your go-to more than any other pillar. So what is the faith pillar and why is that health special support for you? Well, I think if we don't have faith that there's a better tomorrow, there won't be a better tomorrow. Well, again, I'll take my situation. When my husband passed, it was, I never expected it. I mean, you know, at 32, I always thought we would be walking down the street holding hands when we were 75 years old. And in that case, I think it's more spirituality, but you know, whatever your belief system is. That somehow, if you just do the right things, if you incorporate these other values, if you're present with your kid, you give them as many opportunities as you can, things will work out. And that's faith. Because you also talk about faith and not necessarily as a specific religious principle. Like you talk about ways to instill faith in your children that are not necessarily like biblical. Like you teach your children to be grateful for what they have. teach your children there's a spiritual being that's bigger than themselves and help your children keep their eye on the future and be your brother and sister's keeper. Exactly. Yeah. And that piece about something bigger than yourself. Yeah. And that's when you, you know, the whole notion of being a steward of the values. You're going to be the one who is going to help people on Thanksgiving. Yeah. Or you are going to help that child read as a tutor. So being in that public service is so important because once kids get so focused on, I'm going to be the best this, I'm going to be best that, without, devoid of that spirituality, then they grow up sort of redless. Do you think it's hard to instill some element of spirituality in children when they're before high school? I guess, I mean, I guess you just keep talking to them. It's the way you treat people. Okay. The way, the empathy. Even little kids, they have these experiments where you have two little kids. One, you give maybe four or five pieces of candy or something. And the other one, you give maybe one or none. And you see whether or not the one with the four or five is going to share. Sharing. Sharing is empathy. Yeah. You have to start as early as you can. Right. Because it kind of feeds into this whole social emotional learning that we're into right now. Because to try to teach kids three, four and up to be able to communicate. And the way that they communicate, not hold a lecture, but they communicate through play or they communicate through sharing. And the importance of that and the importance of, like I held a gratitude workshop with my high school kids. Like, what are you grateful for? And it doesn't have to be because I got a new Xbox. Something that we have to, I think we took maybe as a granite. For granted, when we were growing up, because it was kind of in our system, our parents were talking about it, and we saw different things, where right now I don't think that's happening as much. Yeah, I wonder if that's as important to parents anymore, like the sort of faith pillar, faith principles. Yeah. I know one of the things that we always did with the kids was like Christmas or birthdays and that kind of thing, when they got gifts and stuff, said, yeah, you can play with it today. But tomorrow you have to write thank you notes. Yeah. And you could not play with it until, you know, that happened. You know, another value, I think, sort of part, and I guess it goes with sort of the faith as well. Like for my grandkids, for example, we don't like to give them presents Christmas time. We do experiences. Oh, yeah. We started something called Night Before Christmas Eve Christmas. And we just take them, my daughters and I, you know, take them to a hotel and we just do activities and, you know, spend the night and they can, next morning can have breakfast in bed or, you know, whatever, go ice skating or whatever the case may be. Because gifts, presents, they're there, they fade, but experiences, that is, you know, I think something that lasts. You leave in a lot of stories throughout the book, stories from other women and their experiences. Because you really do capture a lot of circumstances of other women and how they overcame. And the stories are so compassionate and compelling. How were you able to kind of pull all that together? To me, it's pretty amazing. Some women I knew. Others were friends of people I knew. There was, I think, a couple that I actually read about and I contacted. It depends on the story and then sort of, okay, where would you fit into my seven pillars? Yeah. Kind of thing. So the last pillar I wanted to touch on is the values. And this is something that your child carries with him or her into so many situations and circumstances that they confront in their lives. It's like you as a parent, your values that you instill in your child. And when you talk about values, you talk about kind of being a safe space for your children to talk to you about their, I guess, vulnerabilities. Can you share your thoughts on kind of creating that safe space and making that available to your own children and parents? probably them to their children as a way to kind of grow your relationship and to grow that trust that's really important, that really carries that child for the rest of their lives and their relationship with you or their parent. I guess each of my kids... They haven't trusted me with things that the other two don't know. And we'll never know. I'm the secret keeper. Yeah. And once they trust that in you, then they're more apt to be open. One of the quotes that I really like is that values are inheritance. What makes us who we are as a people. Barack Obama said that. And it is an inheritance to have that trust is a value and it's valued on both parts, both child and parent and spouse and friend or, you know, whatever. You know, if we don't have that, I think that you'll never be a good parent. You'll never be a good friend. You'll never be a good spouse. Yeah, that would definitely be one of my pillars. Once trust is broken, it's really, really hard to get back. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Are there some parenting jewels that you want to share with us that really sort of stick out with you in your parenting journey? Yeah. One, the power of girlfriends. Oh, yes. And I think I see it right here. I don't know what you're talking about. That is so, so important. Yeah. I wish men had the same kind of relationships. you know, with other men that women can have with their friends. It's so funny because I have a group of girlfriends from college. Yeah. Awesome. And we get together every year, a couple of times a year and go somewhere. And they're always, always there. We don't have to talk every day, but they're always there inside. Right. And so they're all aunties to my kids. Pretty cool. When Wes met Dawn, she has a group of girlfriends just like that. Yeah. And that's one of the things that attracted him, him to her. Yeah. He saw that. And I think it's important, you know, women need that. There's actually one quote I use in the book, Rebecca Wells says, She said, some women pray for their daughters to marry good husbands. I pray that my daughters will find girlfriends half as loyal and true as the yaya. You know, she's the one who did, you know, Journey of the Yayas. Yeah. It's so important. Yeah. Because that's your tribe. I do remember reading that in the book, what was said about God and how that reminded him of your relationship with your friends. And that just, you know, it's so true, right? I preach this to my daughter all the time. You are in a lovely relationship. Jose is, everyone who's met him just loves him. I said, but don't forget about your girlfriends ever. Because you're going to need those. One day, you're just going to be in a bad mood and they're going to be the ones that's going to help you come out of that mood. That's right. And it's not because you don't love your partner. It's because they get you and they've been your friends. And you don't have to have a whole lot of them. You just have to have some that are true to you and that you're true to them. Right. because that's where the value is. And she has two sets, the ones that she played soccer with all through high school and there, and they do a set of things. And she has another set that she's met when she was in high school. And they go to raves and they go shopping at thrift stores. You know, they talk about stuff. And when one's not doing well, they try to help the other one out. And that is priceless. Don't ever lose that. Absolutely. Don't ever lose that. Yeah. Don't let life, marriage, childhood, anything. And I'm speaking from experience. I said, just don't lose that. It's too hard to get back once you lose it. Absolutely. Don't lose it. I like that, Jewel. And Pandy, you need that, Jewel. I know, right. You need that support. You need that pride. Yes, that's right. You know, the one that says, okay, what you said was probably not cool, but I understand why you said it. Right. But don't do it again.

UNKNOWN: 44:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:36

I have one request for you two. We're all seasoned moms. That's a nice way of putting it. But there are moms out there now that I've had the pleasure of working with or seeing who have little kids, who have preschoolers or even the ones that are in high school. And I think those moms need to know if you can only tell them three things to help them, what would be those three things? I think the first would be, To have faith, even if they are bleak in the moment, to find the resilience, the courage, the values, those things that you hold inside and know that that faith, that another day, a better day will come. I think secondly is to know that you cannot do this alone. Yeah, that's true. That you need a friend, a neighbor, a teacher, someone who has your back. Who you can talk to, who you can cry with, who can help you along the way. Because no one can do this alone. Yeah. I used to think I could, but you can't. You can't. Yeah. Even with like, you know, your partner can't be all things to you. Exactly. I think third would be always put the need to be present with your kids first. Let them know that they are the most important thing in your life and that will reap benefits beyond words. Yeah. Because they need to know that they're loved and they need to know that they're the most important things to you and that you'll do anything for them. Amen. How would you say your relationship changes over time? You've done what you need to do early on and then you sort of like let go as time goes on. Well, now we can be friends. You need to be a mother first. Right. That's right. You know, if they do something that's messed up, you got to let them know. Yeah. You know, you have to put boundaries and you have to make decisions that they won't like. But at the end of the day, you can be friends. I tell my kids they can't be my kids anymore because they're all too old. But I could be their aunt. They're like, gosh. First one, when he served me, I'm like, dude, you're getting old. I don't know. They're all going to come back to mama. Someone asked me, do you have an empty nest? I'm like, nah, this is more like a boomerang house. They come, they go, they drop off their crap. They come, they go. But I wouldn't have it any other way. That's right. That's right. They are my joy. Yeah. I call them my gifts. They are. Right? They really are. They're my gifts. This introverted person became a very extroverted person when she had kids. People were like, there's no way you were introverted. I feel like I'm introverted for sure. But then I'm more extroverted when I get to know someone. They were like, there's no way. I'm like, yep. I was at INTJ for a long time. Then you had kids and people messing with your kids all the time. The mama bear comes out, right? The lioness comes out. The lioness is like, wait a minute. So, Julie, how can people get your book? It is on Amazon. Mm-hmm. And I just found out the other day that they're printing more copies. Oh, really? Congratulations. Also on Audible, because I was listening to it yesterday. And that was all of us. That was the kids? Yep. And, yeah. That was really nice, too. That was fun. That was a lot of fun, too. Oh, I'm going to have to listen to Audible. It was interesting, because I wasn't expecting to hear all three of them. Wow. Yeah, no, it's really good. Oh, my God. Because I just have my... my ripped up tagged copy. I'm probably up for a new one. I was reading a book. I need one to read and then one for my bookcase. A nice one for my bookcase. I was outside, you know, and I was like, no, I really want to read this. I want to listen to it. And I'm like, oh, I wonder if it's on Audible. Because I read and then I wanted to go outside and play in the dirt. And then I'm like, okay, but I haven't read it. And it's on Audible. It was really nice. I totally was surprised to hear Audible. Oh, wow. No, it's very nice. It was a fun activity. We did it both in L.A. because my youngest, Shani, was in L.A. at the time. So we did a taping out there and then in New York. Well, you heard it here, folks. A proud mommy moment. Look at that smile on her face. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That's great. Thank you so much, Joy. Oh, I've loved it. You are a joy. And it's been a joy having you here on Two Black Moms and a Mic. Thank you so much. My honor. I totally enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much. And I learned a lot from you both. Thank you. Thank you. You're very generous to say that. Yeah, that was very nice of you. I was kind of hoping like that one part where it talks about the importance of a mentor. I'm like, yeah, where was she when I was raising these kids? It's probably right there in Baltimore. I don't even know. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Be sure to check us out at our website, www.toblackmomsinamic.com, where we hope you will subscribe. You can also hear this and our other podcasts on Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Audible, and Podchaser. If you like what you hear, we hope that you'll give us a great review. Hey, thanks for joining us today. This is Glenda. And this is Lisa. Two black moms and a mic, and we're signing off.